Partners Special Edition
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Mike Ogle: Welcome to a special edition of the Supply Chain Careers podcast, focused on navigating the post election supply chain talent landscape. This is Mike Ogle and I’m joined by my co host Chris Gaffney and Rodney Apple as we explore the major questions being faced by supply chain teams and individuals and the companies they work for, plus anyone on their way into the supply chain industry.
[00:00:25] So Chris and Rodney, what are the big questions we’re getting into in this podcast?
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Chris Gaffney: I’m happy to kick it off and, we would typically do a podcast or an article like this going into the new year. What’s new for 2025? And we actually just look back at the article that we did last year. We didn’t do too bad on some of our predictions. Obviously, in an election year, in a presidential election, you just have different dynamics.
[00:00:53] And I think clearly this time around. You’re going to have a fundamental shift in some views on policy, particularly in areas like international trade that connects to the tariff and, and probably immigration coming on the other side of that potentially has bigger impacts on our audience.
[00:01:12] I think, probably the 1st question to ask is, what is really going to change? And what is the speed of impact that that, that is going to, impact our clients and their businesses. Rodney, I’m curious what you’re hearing and we can all compare notes on this.
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Rodney Apple: Yeah, fascinating topic, and I’ve had 2 other podcast reach out about doing a podcast on this very topic.
[00:01:38] When I get done with this may have a, some different perspectives and insights to share. But, you mentioned the T word, the tariffs, right? And so we know Biden carried over what Trump 1. 0 administration had put in place. And now there’s talk about increasing the tariffs and what’s that going to do to our greater economy?
[00:01:59] And then, as we like to talk about, the people talent careers side of supply chain. And we’ve seen a big. Trend and even going back to when the 1st round of terrorists were enacted under Trump administration. I think you also factor in geopolitical tensions into that, but we’ve certainly seen a higher.
[00:02:19] Demand for strategic sourcing and procurement talent that can take a look at the global supply landscape and make some moves. But Chris, as you’re aware of and Mike, you can’t flip a light switch there. It takes a lot of time. So I think we’re going to see. A continuation of that trend, and maybe an accelerated trend as well.
[00:02:41] Any thoughts on that, Chris, from what you’re seeing?
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Chris Gaffney: Yeah, I think it’s a good perspective, right? We had a shifted tariff view on Trump’s 1st administration, but it’s quiet, but the Biden administration kept a lot of that. So you’re now going to be seeing four more years of, activist trade, given the tariffs, but likely to a greater degree.
[00:03:06] So the industries that have had to confront that some of them have already been at it. Now, approaching 8 years, so I think for those industries, it’s just a matter of is the next round of action. Accelerate anything and then the question becomes, if it’s more. Broad reaching. Are there new industries that get pulled into this?
[00:03:28] And if there’s a retaliation, are there some, collateral damage industries that, are actually in our case, more exporters like ag that actually suffer because, because China basically says, okay, if this is going to be to another level, then we’re going to have to make it hard on things that matter to you.
[00:03:46] So I think all those things are to be determined. And I think we also have to understand how much of this is positioning. Jamie diamond, who’s a very big finance guy basically said, don’t forget. Read the art of the deal, and this may be about positioning and positioning ahead of discussions and agreements.
[00:04:06] I think all of that said, what’s clear to us is a lot of people are in a wait and see mode and for some industries that may cause them to pause in particular on talent. I talked to somebody today and we had the debate about capital investment and they said, most of the folks that they know. They’ve adjusted to a higher rate environment, which moderated a little bit.
[00:04:31] So they’ve now gotten used to the current rate environment and figure out what projects can be justified. They’re likely to continue. I think we do see on the talent front. Definitely some, what I would say, quiet reorganizations as the trend and. Rodney, we’ve talked about it. Some searches slowing a little bit.
[00:04:54] So I, I think in response to saying, in particular, how does this international trade dynamic. Impact things, I think it’s, it allows some people to do a bit more wait and see when it comes to people and talent kind of hiring and or investments in talent.
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Mike Ogle: Yeah, I think we’re going to see some uncertainty.
[00:05:15] Certainly we’ve traded one for another. Markets don’t like uncertainty. They tend to hold back a little bit. So even though the election is over, we’ve got one kind of uncertainty that’s gone, but there’s still a lot around how the pre election rhetoric turns into real policies, real actions.
[00:05:35] And I think one of the things that we discussed previously, talking about short term, medium term, long term kinds of situations we’ve got this 2 and 4 year election phases that, that we end up going through. I think with 4 phases overall, 1st of all, we’ve got the very short term, I think as we’re recording this today, they just made the last cabinet choice.
[00:06:00] In the administration, everybody’s been taking a look at those and what they might mean. So that’s the first phase, just everything pre inauguration that’s going to happen. And then that second phase is always, they talk about somebody’s first 100 days. I think they’re going to front load to some extent.
[00:06:19] And then you go from post 100 days up to two years, when you get to midterm elections. What does that mean? And then beyond that is, what do we, what happens when we get a new administration? Are we going to make major changes?
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Chris Gaffney: Yeah, and any administration can move more rapidly with executive orders. Those can be done day 1 and there will be there.
[00:06:40] This group is prepared for that. It’s a question of what are those day? 1 kind of things that may be new. They may be undoing things that the prior administration had. And then to your point, Mike, you really do have even less than 2 years, because the congressional side will go back into election mode, 15 months in as they, they start preparing for the 2 year cycle and particularly for a 2nd term and having all 3.
[00:07:08] Have the House, the Senate and the White House all on the same side legislation, which is more enduring is also the big opportunity. And obviously the Biden got the bill back better got chips, whatever the infrastructure, those couple of bills, what are the 2 or 3 big legislative efforts?
[00:07:26] But that all that Mike, that’s not that quick. So you’re like, to your point, the parallel to your point is the executive orders come quick. And then. What makes it on the legislative agenda? So I think that, that’s pretty clear. I think it’s obvious. One of the things that will be quick is the immigration action and that that may have some connections to some talent things that may have some connections to macro economy.
[00:07:49] The reality is the people who are here. The high percentage of them, whether they’re, whatever their status is, they’re working. And if we have a shift in the working population, that does impact some businesses at the frontline. That’s capacity for lots of business in agricultural and in logistics.
[00:08:09] And a lot of frontline logistics are using contract labor. There’s a lot of dynamics there, obviously, in the hospitality industry and a lot of industries. So seeing what happens there and. Some people may leave out of fear as opposed to them being someone who’s targeted, but all that’s going to be some version of that’s coming in the early on.
[00:08:29] I think for us that connects to. Areas that will not slow down, right? We’ve seen automation move consistently. It will clearly continue, right? If we’re going to have any pressure at the frontline labor force. A lot of the big automation initiatives are justified by labor cost and or labor availability.
[00:08:49] Anybody involved in the world of automation is likely going to see continued strong demand, at least with some direct or indirect connection to pressure on the frontline workforce and that frontline workforces had low unemployment. They would like higher wages because inflation has been a driver for them.
[00:09:06] So I think as long as that frontline workforce is employed. We will at least have some strength in the economy because people spend money. So I guess in the short term, Mike, that’s where I think we’ll, we’ll really have to read the room and, maybe that’s what these companies do.
[00:09:22] And they hold their cards until Q2 and some people maybe even Q3 and then they may say, we feel good and we’ll spend or we don’t feel great. And we’ll just hold our breath for the full year.
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Rodney Apple: And what are your thoughts, Chris, on the greater impact to manufacturing? We’ve certainly have seen construction of new factories taking place and in a few different industries. So you see that, in aerospace and defense, you see it and automotive and I know you’ve got some good examples there too, but, what do you think you’re going to see from that macro level? We know it’s from the recruiting world. It can be quite challenging with 50 years of outsourcing manufacturing overseas to places like China, we’re starting to see more of that, that reshoring and obviously near shoring.
[00:10:08] But do we have the talent to fill these roles? Should we continue to open up more and more factories? Because I know in our world of recruitment, You know, these plant managers and these leadership roles, especially these technical, highly sophisticated plants are very challenging, to find people mainly due to the aging workforce and not putting enough people into the manufacturing workforce for what appears to be 2 or 3 generations now
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Chris Gaffney: I think the industries that, that got momentum over the last 4 years in terms of, Bringing manufacturing or extending manufacturing in the U. S. That momentum is going to continue. Clearly on the automotive front, the bigger question likely is going to be is that pace change.
[00:10:53] If there’s less of a focus on right and we’ve seen some of the big players like Hyundai in their mega plant in Georgia, their 2nd line, I think, is going to be a hybrid line. So they’re hedging bets. But I think the reality is us auto manufacturing. Whoever the brand name on the car is.
[00:11:10] As an industry that we want to continue to enhance and those players and their tier 1 and tier 2 suppliers who are also here, mostly physically, within various radiuses of those plants, whether they serve 1 or multiple they’re doing the hard work. Making their business more attractive, because this isn’t just manufacturing, it’s typically rural work as well.
[00:11:33] And so you’ve got to do a lot of workforce development. And I think the states and the regions that have committed to this, workforce development is a key part of. Where this is going to go now for new industry or industries that are going to jump into this. The reality is these other industries had support, right?
[00:11:51] Whether it be federal, state, local support. If there are other industries that are going to look to bring manufacturing or some kind of assembling back to the US, they’re going to need support because you’ve got to get these folks trained or retrained. You need some. Incentive that type of thing. I think that’s hard work.
[00:12:10] That’s a longer term play. And the people who are already in the middle of it are committed to the ride. And I think this doesn’t change where they’re headed. I think it’s the question. Is there a next round of this that over the next 4 years evolves? But I do. I think regardless, it’s a long term play.
[00:12:28] I think what’s unstated about this at the other end is these industries have to be competitive. That’s the hard mid to long term lesson is we make this commitment, but can we put product in and company and consumers hands that are priced competitively? That is that’s the tough part.
[00:12:45] The 64, 000 prices are going up.
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Mike Ogle: Yeah. And if you push the tariff side of things a little too hard, and there’s retaliation. Yeah. I think it’s very difficult to not end up with higher prices and, all across the board and certainly talent can go up pretty fast, especially you look at supply and demand and it’s hard to create that unless you’re going to import that as well.
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Chris Gaffney: Yeah, I think the industry,
[00:13:20] the output of the election gives you your honeymoon period. Okay. And a lot of people who voted were frustrated with how prices have increased over the last few years, and now they are going to hope for a change. And over the next 6 to 9 months, if things occur. That cost some examples of tangible declines in some part of prices for consumers, then that’ll be good.
[00:13:52] If not, then I think consumers are going to get frustrated. The things that have. Going up and come down not that many. Some things went up and then just stop going up as much, right? That’s where you have to have deflation for prices to go down. Lower inflation means prices just went up a little bit and inflation, doesn’t if it stays around 2%, people are going to realize, hey, all these prices just went up for the long term.
[00:14:16] They may blame the prior administration, but eventually they’re going to ask for something else to be done. And so I think there’s a big dynamic there, but that doesn’t play out right away. I think that plays out maybe into that 2nd year and starts to influence that congressional cycle.
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Mike Ogle: 1 of the things in supply chain just had in my class, the supply chain chapter, and then a inventory management chapter in our operations management class. but one of the things that I ended up telling the students is that it really didn’t matter who the administration was shortly after COVID. We all were in a situation where we got caught short of certain kinds of things and everybody went in a just in case mode. So I showed him some government statistics showing how much the, about a 5 to 10 percent bump on average of wholesale inventories across the U.
[00:15:06] S. and in every industry on average. And when you have a demand, sudden demand boost, but you don’t end up having the supply, prices are going to go up. And then you have a reversion to the mean, and the data was showing the reversion back to the mean. I think one of the things that we would have seen anyway is this, as you were saying, Chris, not that we deflate, but maybe we end up having, we’ll eventually catch up to where we would have been anyway, but the price, Rises will hold.
[00:15:42] Now, if we go through a really tough tariff environment where it turns into a little bit more of a war, then we’ll probably end up having a little bit of each. It could hurt business overall. But it also would end up tending to have that price increase type of effect.
[00:16:01] So we, we want to take a look at where we think some of the targets might end up being overall. I think you addressed a couple of those.
[00:16:10] As far as are there specific countries that are beyond the usual China push and industries in the U. S. that may or may not. Do so well, if that starts to happen.
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Chris Gaffney: I think, what I’ve always said. And I think as we go deeper with China, we’re going to find out, China is the world’s factory. And I was reading something over the weekend and then in the first round of tariffs. The big new business was people looking for exclusions. The question, and I think the number of exclusions that were granted for specific industries, specific companies, specific products ended up being really large because people would go in to whoever their legislator is for people in Washington said, hey, you guys did this.
[00:16:57] You didn’t realize you did. You may not have intended this, but you’ve really hurt my business because some input to my process can only be gotten from China and or my alternatives, Costs are, 10 X, and they put me out of business. The question is, how will the exclusions play out? And I, I saw very clearly people like Walmart, people like Home Depot who ship hundreds of container target Amazon who ship hundreds and not thousands of containers every week from China.
[00:17:28] Those folks. Are going to pass price increases due to tariffs along to consumers. So they may take flack for that for the from the consumer. And that may be part of the bet that’s out there. But anybody in the consumer product side, who uses China as a source, which is China.
[00:17:46] Almost everybody who makes anything that’s not in food and beverage if those categories are hit directly, or in an indirect way, then that will hurt those industries. Obviously industrial. I saw somebody think it was black and Decker or somebody like that said, anything there hurts us.
[00:18:04] So you start to get into those durables. Yeah, there’s not much that you buy. That’s a, that’s a durable good. That doesn’t have a big part of their bill of materials coming from China. I think it’s, I think it’s whatever the 1st salvo is, and then all of the lobbyists to who. Support those companies, they’ll be in there saying, let’s be clear.
[00:18:26] You understand this impacts my business in this state, in my ability to employ people, I think there are lots of industries who are going to try to avoid that. But those are some Mike that come to mind for me.
[00:18:37] Now, 1, 1 thing we haven’t talked about that is likely coming as well. Is a looser regulatory environment and I think it’s a question of same thing. What industries benefit or don’t benefit from that dynamic? And where does it imply people? I think clearly in the area of energy. You’re going to see growth, whether that be in the primary with oil and gas, or with all of the data centers that are coming, the demand for energy is rising.
[00:19:10] And so I think an industry that likely benefits. Greatly is anybody in the energy complex. So any of our folks, looking for an industry shift, that’s probably an industry for the foreseeable future power generation, power distribution, raw inputs and I think. There’s a recognition that we’re going to need all sources of power.
[00:19:32] Any fossil fuels, plus wind, hydro, solar are all going to see some benefits coming out of where we’re headed. And they’ll have more of a free running field to get things done than they might have been for the last 4 years. That’s probably a reasonable bet.
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Rodney Apple: Yeah, I think there will be certain segments that will be impacted from a, from a tax perspective. That’s to be determined, but is it more emphasis on deregulations and fossil fuel? Are there, do what happens to the renewable side?
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Mike Ogle: On renewables things. I’ve been listening probably to way too many other podcasts on renewable energy and the energy transition and the things that are going on, and I think there’s going to be a general celebration no matter which part of en of energy you’re into that this is going to.
[00:20:26] Be a huge help whether it’s, what we’re trying to do with the grid and adding new connections, being able to get the permitting taken care of because there’s a whole lot of jobs. Or a whole lot of projects that were. Already booked, but very difficult to be able to go through the process of getting all the permitting taken care of in a reasonable amount of time and then getting the interconnection, even being able to get on the grid, because we’re digitizing everything.
[00:20:55] And at the same time, is hitting so hard or so strong. As you’re developing all this kind of thing, it’s an interesting piece of the supply chain to think about how. All the electronic components flow, where they’re coming from, how the equipment gets in place, and at the right time so that all these big contractors can go through the process of getting these.
[00:21:19] Whether it’s solar farms or whether it’s geothermal or whether it’s oil and gas. Yeah, I think the big message is our demand for electrons is rising faster than it would have been expected 4 to 5 years ago. So we’re going to have to. Be open to all sources to create those electrons probably longer than people would have expected.
[00:21:45] So I think the transition continues, but it’s going to be a lot longer time. Probably for the folks in oil and gas. They’re happy with that for the folks in power generation to need flexibility in terms of where they get that load from, they’re happy and they’ll have more support to make that work.
[00:22:02] So I think that, That’s how I connect those dots. And, Mike said it, the AI is on the other end of that. That’s the other thing that probably underpins lots of things that this. Animal is loose in the wild now and will be for another four years. So we’re not gonna see any regulation on AI because we’re in a race with China in that world as well.
[00:22:26] And there’ll be good and there’ll be other coming out of that over the next four years. And, as it pertains to people, you have to be engaged in AI in one way or another. As an individual learner as a company person, or whatever I had somebody say to me a couple of weeks ago. Nobody asks when you work on something.
[00:22:47] Did you use math to come to that recommendation or conclusion? And or whatever, it could be some liberal arts kind of thing. But they might ask did you use AI? And you’re not sure if you’re supposed to answer in the affirmative or the negative. But in 5 years, I think it will be assumed that AI informs all of the decisions and recommendations and content that gets created.
[00:23:11] And again, whether that’s good or bad, it is likely to happen. And it is like the Internet, right? They’re just, they’re not a lot of rules around it. Again, for our talent audience, you can’t avoid AI as part of your own individual development and or as part of anything you’re doing. Structurally, if you’re in a bigger organization, you have decisions around how to develop your folks.
[00:23:35] I was in a setting last week with small town government officials, and the whole day was exposing them to AI. And nobody, everybody needs to be on that playground, I guess I would say.
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Rodney Apple: I think, keeping with our theme of how, we’re at that intersection of supply chain and talent, maybe start segwaying into, what should we be doing as supply chain organizations during this time frame?
[00:24:05] And then I would say as individuals thinking about our own careers, what should we be what should be on the watch out for? And then what can we do for our own career planning and development?
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Mike Ogle: One thing I tell my own students is that no matter what ends up happening politically and internationally and some of the big level kinds of things that are going on, the acceleration of change is always there. If you aren’t ready with some agility in the way that you’re ready to take on constant change and constantly trying to improve your own skills and be able to prove that you’ve, You can demonstrate that and show others that you have that kind of capability.
[00:24:49] That’s probably your number one job, learn how to be a little bit more agile and keep improving yourself.
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Chris Gaffney: Yeah, I can think of some feedback I’ve heard from industry folks over the last three to six months. Particularly with a lot of the new technology and the AI and all of that world, but anything that’s going on like this, that’s complexity.
[00:25:11] If you can be. A translator and a communicator in your whatever setting you live in to help people who are less adept at this understand the implications of these broader issues that are out there, then you’ll have value. So you’ve got to be a critical thinker. You’ve got to, you’ve got to be engaged in what’s going on in these issues and say, what’s relevant for me and my job and my team and my company have a point of view, be able to translate that into the impact for your business. I think the communication skills. That go with that, I think are still critical the problem solving skills.
[00:25:54] But I definitely think being a translator is a nice skill set that I think will serve you well, in the next few years with all the uncertainty that we have in the landscape and the diversity of change that we have coming.
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Mike Ogle: Yeah, just being able to address that. Risk and uncertainty and know what it is and be able to understand the past and present of what’s happened when certain kinds of actions take place in your supply chains and figure out how to be defensive. It’s almost like playing a game of chess or some other kind of game where you have to be a little on offense and a little on defense and understand how to protect your backside.
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Chris Gaffney: That’s interesting I was talking to an audience today and what I sense and, you can do the math is lots of people have held money on the sidelines, right? For a variety of reasons. Money is sitting there. It’ll go someplace it’s going to the venture people. It’s going to private equity.
[00:26:55] They’re trying to figure out where. Where the next point of leverage is so innovation is going to get. Investment whether that be in a physical product a technical product, I think there are a set of people who will be defensive, but there are also a set of people who go on the offensive, right?
[00:27:16] And so idea people and people who could say, where is the idea? In this chaos they’ll at least get access to some funding to try out their ideas.
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Rodney Apple: Any other advice to share, for companies to be thinking about Mike, you touched on this earlier in the, when we got started about front loading or stockpiling essential inventory as 1 strategy, there’s if you do that you’re going to have a higher cost of freight.
[00:27:42] So how do you get out in front of that piece as well? And we’ve already talked about diversifying suppliers. That takes that’s a longer term strategy and then, you have to factor in, what’s going to happen in the future election cycles. But is there anything else that we want to add?
[00:27:58] And then part B of that is, from a. From a hiring perspective, what do you think companies should do to pick up, usually in a down market if it, if there’s a tightening of labor or the other way around I do think companies can look strategically at at scooping up talent as well.
[00:28:14] Anything that you want to add there, Chris or Mike.
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Chris Gaffney: Yeah, one point I would add, we’ve talked about this more at the federal level, and one thing that’s been clear to me this year, and I think it’s true in most states, is states have a lot of Infrastructure that’s available to support economic development and business growth for either new or existing businesses.
[00:28:38] And I think that was 1 of my revelations when I went to Georgia tech is there were so many resources that the state of Georgia was offering for both new businesses and existing businesses to help them grow tapping into all of that. I think is a no brainer because a lot of those things are just going to continue.
[00:28:57] Some of them are state funded. Some of their are federally funded, but, if I could be the person on my team who could help figure out what’s out there to help my business, I think people are so surprised at what’s available for small, medium and large size businesses. That’s 1 that’s out there and it comes into the training and development.
[00:29:14] A lot of the, a lot of these areas, we get into the universities, the technical colleges and schools that are trying to help these new industries coming in. You at least need to know what’s out there that might be available for your business low and no cost. I think that’s a, that’s an easy 1.
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Mike Ogle: And I think 1 of the things that might be happening with hiring at least short term. It just goes back to any. Any uncertain environment is that you’re probably going to see a pullback on the entry level kind of people if they don’t already have the skills in place, there’s not going to be much, much hiring and that will extend the supply chain to some extent until we understand which supply chains need it.
[00:29:59] And that, the money is there and they have to refill the chain, the talent chain. But. In times like that, I think there’s going to be a little bit more reliance especially whether it’s AI and cybersecurity and on the procurement side of alternate ways to be able to manage all that. Probably going to see a little bit more reliance on contract type of people and on the consultancy side, not on the general, but much more specific.
[00:30:32] Those people are going to get busier and busier that know how to really help a company navigate through that. That whole side of being able to get greater sourcing opportunities or. I should say alternatives.
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Chris Gaffney: Yeah, I think it’s a good, it’s a good call out there. Mike. I think there’s some, I think we’ve seen some slowing of that college hiring market over the last 12 months and so that may be to your point something else that’s out there.
[00:31:00] There may be some firms who saying, or is a, I going to do the job that these entry level folks used to do. And 1 of the things and a lot of that were truly on the knowledge side. And that’s where we’ve pointed a lot of our younger supply chain talent to say, the jobs that are going to be out there. Are going to be in the fulfillment centers, the DCs, the plants, the places where you’ve got to roll up your sleeves.
[00:31:24] Those jobs are going to be there. In some cases your career agility and your openness to going to the front lines of the supply chain may be a good path over the next couple of years. Those skills are clearly beneficial long term. But if that office job is not there, that analyst job, that it may be time to say, what.
[00:31:46] I never really gave the frontline supervision enough investment and that’s going to be, that’s what’s going to pay the bills for me right now. That’s where I’m going to learn. That’s probably something else our audience needs to be open to.
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Mike Ogle: Yeah, and even transportation certainly. Any of the side of it where you’re working on the sourcing end as well, which could be.
[00:32:11] The office end of it, but I think anything that’s helping execution happen. Is definitely fair game. So that’s a good point, Chris.
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Rodney Apple: And what are your thoughts to we’ve seen this trend. It’s been going on for a number of years now where a lot of manufacturers are moving towards, an asset light model, so they’re outsourcing more and more production to contract manufacturers.
[00:32:35] Do you see that as a trend that may accelerate? And then what’s the implications to the workforce? Is should people be looking at, At those kinds of opportunities as they continue to grow and scale,
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Chris Gaffney: I see no reason that will not continue just as simple as that and, my backgrounds in food and beverage and there’s been a big push there in that industry.
[00:33:00] I don’t know any reason why that won’t continue particularly with a lighter regulatory environment, the pressure on standards for, quality, health, safety, environmental protections where we are, we’ll be fine. And. It’ll be on those companies brands to make sure that the people that they outsource to can deliver on their brand promise and the expectations of those brands.
[00:33:22] But, there, there is a lot of energy in that space. That has been pretty steady. There may be some roll up some consolidations and other players getting into that. There may be another round of that going on. But I think the net amount of. Goods that are provided through a contract relationship goods and service.
[00:33:43] I think that continues to rise. I don’t see any reason why that trend doesn’t continue.
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Mike Ogle: If you can really be a good puppet master these days and be a total virtual company, there are so many options that are available to form a virtual company and have in almost any piece of it.
[00:34:05] Instead of being vertically integrated at all, like things were many years ago, then you just have to orchestrate the pieces. So you can outsource just about anything these days.
[00:34:16]
Chris Gaffney: We clearly, we have created and will continue to create an environment where this is, this is a creator’s economy, right?
[00:34:26] This is an entrepreneur’s economy and. It will continue to be, I think that’s a clear trend for us.
[00:34:34]
Mike Ogle: Yeah. One of the things I think it’s always interesting to look at, and I think it was the, it’s been true for just about every president, so I’m not gonna, this is totally apolitical. But I think there’s a tendency to do the whack a mole thing and not realize that when you smack one participant in the supply chain, then there are so many different sources around the world that you can reconnect with, and even play games with where things flow through.
[00:35:04] On its way from 1 spot to another that it’s difficult to keep up and all you’re doing is playing the whack a mole game and trying to go to the next step in the next step. It’s a very interesting time that we live in and very fast response.
[00:35:18]
Chris Gaffney: Yeah, I think, that’s probably my last fine point is, we’ve always said people who are good in the supply chain planning space will have a home.
[00:35:26] The things that you talk about, Mike, back to uncertainty, they point us back to understanding your supply chain really well, really deeply, down into tier 2 and tier 3 understand if you’ve got that outsource supply chain, you’ve got to have contingency and risk planning and resilience people who are going to go down those paths and if they make those investments, or people get those skills, you likely might be Get the call, and the call might be after the fact when somebody’s had some pain and heartache, but I think we’re creating that environment where that capability has greater value.
[00:36:02]
Rodney Apple: Yeah, Chris, I think 2 companies will, as we tighten the belts, it’ll be certain industries that are tightening and others that are floodgates. We talked about oil and gas as an example of resurgence and hiring. But I think it’s balancing that. People does it take to, manage the day to day and then when you look at your more strategic initiatives, automation projects, transformations that’s where we may see more lean on consultants and the gig economy, which we’re starting to see is becoming a bigger and bigger need and in the greater supply chain space.
[00:36:37] Any thoughts there?
[00:36:38]
Mike Ogle: I think we’ve got a generation now that is getting a little bit more into the whole gig side of things and
[00:36:44] realizing I can have a whole lot of flexibility, I can work intensely for a while, and then go play for several months, and then work intensely for a while, and go play, or maybe even work intense intensely somewhere while they’re playing in another country, it depends on, there’s nothing that holds you back.
[00:37:03] Anymore from being able to do the whole gig type of thing versus the, 3040 years with the company. Of course,
[00:37:10]
[00:37:10]
Chris Gaffney: Know lots of people who play in that space. I know lots of people who have and lots of people who aspire to do that. And I think the ones that are really good at it. Are the ones that don’t have to do it, right? So that’s a bit of the paradox there. A lot of the folks I knew who were younger, who would really like to do that ultimately said, I just got to have something steady.
[00:37:30] I’ll go back into the full time market. The people I know who are really enjoying that are at that stage of their life where they are truly semi retired. And so this is not. This is not their light bill that they’re trying to cover those people. I know a person that we know. It was in Hawaii last week and is back working this week.
[00:37:51] And is telling a client who really needs them. I’m happy to stay with you, but I’m not going to travel. I think it’s a spectrum there for sure. I do think the trend continues. If you’ve got unique knowledge and skills, people are willing to pay for it and do it on your terms.
[00:38:07]
Rodney Apple: And I’ll add that right now is not the time to stop networking your networking is in your relationships. If things change, and they will whenever there’s a new administration come in, we’ve talked about that for almost an hour. 1 thing you can expect is change and shifting gears and you need to be ready to pivot and having a network to lean on now, I think is imperative and then working on upscaling in areas that are going to be.
[00:38:34] In high demand and as Chris, you talked about, sourcing it’s planning. It’s, it’s all of those core areas becoming more sophisticated with those new ways of doing things, advanced planning, strategic sourcing, the data analytics, Ai, I think is imperative to long term success.
[00:38:51] Whenever you have. Changes around the corner.
[00:38:55]
Mike Ogle: Yeah, I think that whole side of AI that people don’t really appreciate the more that I end up using something as basic as. Chat GPT, which is only one small element out of everything that AI is going to bring us, but the ability to have your AI buddy, how to create an agent that you can tell, use some of your expertise, almost in your own words of how you would work with clients, competitors not competitors, clients, or suppliers, coworkers anywhere in the world, you Being able to understand how to use the tools in the way that they are assisting you as opposed to you feeling like you have to become an A.
[00:39:35] I. person.
[00:39:38]
Chris Gaffney: Yep, obviously, I will say this if our audiences. Listening to this, then they’re somebody who takes initiative and focuses on their own development or cares about their own people and is thinking about how to do it. So you’re already if you’re listening, you’re already inclined, like Mike’s talked about, but, understanding how you can leverage what’s going on being aware Of the externals that might impact your condition, that self aware person, I think is it’s a big deal.
[00:40:05] And then what I tell all the people that I mentor this, the world goes to hustlers, right? This may be painful for some people, but if you’re a hustler and you’re out in front, you will be good over time. So I would say, this is definitely an environment over the next 6 to 12 months to be a hustler.
[00:40:23]
Rodney Apple: As always thanks audience for listening. We will continue to keep a close eye on this and we’ll weave any podcast and let you know how you can be prepared and for what’s to come.
[00:40:35] So thanks again for listening and we’ll see you on the next episode.
